tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post8439008787693186457..comments2023-11-07T05:29:51.839-05:00Comments on Pressing Issues: The truth about Romney -- from a cartoonist?Greg Mitchell http://www.blogger.com/profile/05627773627527089158noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-24222721245654496882007-12-24T01:07:00.000-05:002007-12-24T01:07:00.000-05:00I was an active member of the church for 30 years....I was an active member of the church for 30 years. On the positive side, most members I knew were dedicated to the church. hard working and honorable people. The church emphasis family and service (primarily to other church members). It emphasis clean living.<BR/><BR/>I resigned my membership two years ago because I decided to investigate the church's claims and history from its own sources. I discovered that the Mormon church has very little to support its claims. The doctrines are a loose menagerie of statements made by different church leaders over the life of the church.<BR/><BR/>One of the Mormon Apostles, Bruce McKonkie attempted to publish a comprehensive set of doctrines in Mormon Doctrine, but the presidency of the church disavowed it and to members it was often incorrect. Yet, the Mormon church has never published a clear set of doctrinal statements, instead leaving members to try to determine what is correct doctrine and what is not, or which of past doctrines are still valid.<BR/><BR/>Even some of what were considered to be core such as the Mormon god was once a man, were disavowed in televised interviews with the Mormon prophet.<BR/><BR/>So when Steve Benson and others come out against the church they have very good reasons. I have long said that if the church would revoke its absurd claim that is god's true and only valid church on the earth, that the Jews sailed to an uninhabited America and populated both the North and South American continents with Jewish descendents, that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from gold plates given to him by an angel, which is riddles with so-called facts that have long been proven false from gold plates, that the Temple ceremonies are from ancient Israel, The Garden fo Eden was in Missouri, that Joseph Smith is a decendent of Jesus, and so many, many more...<BR/><BR/>If they simply come out and say that they want to be just another Christian religion, adopt Christianity as generally recognized, and drop their absurd and often comical claims, they will likely be recognized on the world stage of Christian churches.<BR/><BR/>But given that they have invested so much in the message that they are the only ones with the authority to bring god's message, that the Book of Mormon is a literal history of the people in the Americas, etc. they simply can't abandon their doctrines and history. They are stuck with them, for better and for worse.<BR/><BR/>So what is all the fuss about? Recent days have brought it to light in spades - Mormon leaders, and Mitt Romney are liars, plain and simple. Mitt has shown that he is willing to lie about his dad and MLK in an attempt to distance himself from the Mormon's long standing racial bigotry. This is akin to what is termed "Lying for the Lord" in the church. Lying by ommission, forgetfulness or simply saying things that they know are wrong is more common than most members suspect.<BR/><BR/>Mitt shouldn't be president because he is a liar. I suspect taht he feels some entitlement to lying because it would bring about a greater good, i.e. Mitt Romney as US president.<BR/><BR/>For all of you who are dismayed by the "Mormon bashing frenzy", it will soon be over. Mitt will swiftly lose ground to his opponents not just because he is a Mormon (sorry, this is a political reality) but because he represents the worst that the Mormon church has to offer. But then again, he is only following his leaders.<BR/><BR/>MichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-18601345082675288772007-12-22T16:34:00.000-05:002007-12-22T16:34:00.000-05:00I'm coming to the party a bit late. Much of what ...I'm coming to the party a bit late. Much of what needs to be said has already been said. However, as a non-Mormon and general religious skeptic, I see the same behavior over and over when Mormons "defend" their organization and its doctrine: They personally attack the critic and do whatever is necessary to avoid the criticism itself.<BR/><BR/>Mormon apologists are vociferous practitioners of the Ad Hominem Attack. Benson is bitter, he's sad, he's disturbed, he's whatever.<BR/><BR/>What utter crap. Attacking the person is a pathetic way to deflect the spotlight from the real issues. People in this country - religious and non-religious alike - will continue to feel uneasy about Mormonism as long as:<BR/>- Mormons continue to proselytize in such an aggressive manner;<BR/>- the Mormon religion keeps shrouding itself in secrecy.<BR/><BR/>I won't go into the rather bizarre origins of Mormonism and how most non-Mormons who take even a passing glance quickly conclude Joseph Smith basically made the whole thing up in his head (ha! I just did).<BR/><BR/>I've known and been friends with a number of Mormons and, like many, have found Mormons in general to be extremly nice and polite. However, I've also seen many instances where Mormons look out for their own first, without consideration of anyone else.<BR/><BR/>I mention the above because it reflects the insular nature of Mormonism as well as the ingrained sense of THE ONE TRUE FAITH that practicing Mormons have.<BR/><BR/>Romney's religion IS an issue because most people see it as, well ... just plain weird. And I don't think his speech came across as anything more than a clever political document designed to get him elected and deflect attention from Mormon doctrine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-46452615898768997172007-12-22T02:26:00.000-05:002007-12-22T02:26:00.000-05:00It has been pointed out, and it is obvious: Peopl...It has been pointed out, and it is obvious: People can leave the Mormon Church, but they can't "leave it alone." Why don't you ask believing Mormons what they believe rather than relying on those who do not believe it what others believe?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-20248803085647188032007-12-21T23:07:00.000-05:002007-12-21T23:07:00.000-05:00A Mormon journalist/professor has written a guest ...A Mormon journalist/professor has written a guest column for E&P hitting negative media coverage of the faith. It is here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003688296Greg Mitchell https://www.blogger.com/profile/05627773627527089158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-69491404813826935202007-12-21T22:19:00.000-05:002007-12-21T22:19:00.000-05:00Wow, this is crazy stuff...I really wish we didn't...Wow, this is crazy stuff...I really wish we didn't have to get into all this, because I am very jaded!!! I think there may even be non-members posing as Mormons saying things to throw others off.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line, if we started a debate against what the Jews believe, Joe Lieberman's religion for example...how would that go?<BR/><BR/>This discussions is a waste of all of our time, there is no way this will ever be an objective fair discussion, from either side. (Although when reading these blogs I get the feeling that people who are not members of the Mormon church are here attacking and I have to ask why?)<BR/><BR/>Lets stick to the issues, and keep the religions and politics seperate. On that note, anyone who believes the Mormon church will control Mitt Romney is ridiculous in my estimate. Think about it, it makes sense.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying to vote Romney here, but lets at least understand the issue and vote for who is qualified.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08944250343660494937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-64910958660466261252007-12-21T12:35:00.000-05:002007-12-21T12:35:00.000-05:00Well, as a true believeing Mormon, Mr.Bensen is te...Well, as a true believeing Mormon, Mr.Bensen is telling the truth. The Temple rituals are copied from the Mason's. And yes it is true that you conventant to give all your time, talent's, to building up the Church. I would wonder where Romney's loyalties would be, as the Prophet and apostles are heavy weights. These being the reason why, I would not support a Mormon Presidential candidate regardless of political afiliation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-16789368308657738752007-12-20T20:08:00.000-05:002007-12-20T20:08:00.000-05:00Whenever Mormons get criticized, they have two sta...Whenever Mormons get criticized, they have two standard reactions:<BR/><BR/>1. We're being persecuted. A variation on the theme is that the critic is a better ex-Mormon. Another one is to cry, "Bigot!"<BR/><BR/>2. The critic is ignorant. "You don't know anything about us," you'll cry.<BR/><BR/>It's a hermetically sealed defense, because the most knowledgable critics will inevitably be disaffected ex-Mormons. But their criticisms are automatically rejected.<BR/><BR/>Enter another kind of critic: The amateur Mormonologist who, for whatever reason, has studied the canival fraud that calls itself the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.<BR/><BR/>That kind of critic isn't an ex-Mormon. He or she simply got interested, in the same way that anyone can get interested in an esoteric topic. Over time, some of us wind up with a big storehouse of knowledge.<BR/><BR/>You see, these days, nothing about Mormonism is secret. It's all out there, freely available on the Internet. So, how do you answer this sort of critic? You go back to defense #1: All criticism is bigotry.<BR/><BR/>All of this is to be expected, of course. Does it fool anyone? Not really. Probably not even yourselves. But you persist, and life goes on.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Mitt Romney is never going to be president. He's too blatant and clumsy a liar, which by political standards is pretty blatant and pretty clumsy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-26989229652488645112007-12-20T18:16:00.000-05:002007-12-20T18:16:00.000-05:00We have a new interview with Benson up at E&P in w...We have a new interview with Benson up at E&P in which he responds to some of the criticism here. It's at:<BR/><BR/>http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003687866Greg Mitchell https://www.blogger.com/profile/05627773627527089158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-23615691144101587872007-12-20T16:27:00.000-05:002007-12-20T16:27:00.000-05:00I think the mormons have who is attacking whom a b...I think the mormons have who is attacking whom a bit backwards. It is mormons who call other churchs "abominations", who represent a Protestant minister as the handmaiden of the devil, who call the Catholic church "the great whore". <BR/><BR/>They are horrified that people are discussing their secret ceremonies and oaths but don't have a clue how their church's teachings denegrates the sacred beliefs and personages of other faiths.. Let's start with the very, very basic that would makes all other discussions about specific Biblical doctrine and exercise in futility. The simple fact is that mormons worship a god who has more in common with Zeus than he has with the immutable God of Christianity and Judaism. Like Islam, Mormonism is a Christian derivative, and trying to find something in common between mormons and Christians is an impossible quest since they start from a completely different premise, i.e., the God from which all else flows. The mormon god is an exhalted man and mormons need to understand that they are allowed to believe what they will, but to a Christian, mormon teachings about their God and His only begotten son, whom they worship, are as shocking and abhorent as the anti-Christian "art" which portrays the Last Supper with Christ as a naked woman and that photograph of a man urinating on the Cross. I'm sorry, mormons, but it is you who have used the sacred beliefs of billions of people and turned them into obscene teachings (like God the Father having physical sex with the Virgin Mary and that Jesus had sex with 3 women---and before someone says "we don't teach that", please check your own history and what your apostle Brigham Young wrote). Mormons even belittle Jesus's death on the Cross and eschew the Cross, with the cutsie quip: "well, if he'd been shot would you wear a gun around your neck?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-32227371682212234742007-12-20T15:28:00.000-05:002007-12-20T15:28:00.000-05:00I came on here looking for news about Mitt, stumbl...I came on here looking for news about Mitt, stumbled onto the post. Funny comments, hilarious to read the nonsense of the non mormons, how hard they attack and fight. All the ex members scream against the church as if it scarred them for life. I can't stop laughing. It was interesting to see the different comments pull out obscure mormon ideas from 1930. Way too much time fighting the mormons -- go feed some starving kids like the church is...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-34566244655298989912007-12-20T15:25:00.000-05:002007-12-20T15:25:00.000-05:00Mr. Benson knows that Mormons follow their leaders...Mr. Benson knows that Mormons follow their leaders instructions. The following are official statements from Mormon leaders. Visit www.lds.org and search for political neutrality.<BR/><BR/> “In light of articles appearing in the media, we reaffirm the position of neutrality taken by the Church, and affirm the long-standing policy that no member occupying an official position in any organization of the Church is authorized to speak in behalf of the Church concerning the Church’s stand on political issues."<BR/><BR/>and,<BR/><BR/>"This is especially ironic considering the partisan political neutrality of the Church, which does not endorse candidates or party platforms, does not put out voter guides and has some of the strictest rules of any church in America in forbidding use of its buildings and membership rolls for political purposes. As individuals responsible to their constituencies, they are free to support or oppose whatever political platform or policy they choose."<BR/><BR/>Mr. Benson claims Mormons are obedient followers, then why is he so worried, when the Church itself declares itself politically neutral. <B>Oh yeah, Benson's got a vendetta.</B>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-55324577788930714782007-12-20T15:14:00.000-05:002007-12-20T15:14:00.000-05:00As Rev. J. R. Dummelow described the authors of th...As Rev. J. R. Dummelow described the authors of the Bible: "Though purified and ennobled by the influence of His Holy Spirit; men each with his own peculiarities of manner and disposition--each with his own education or want of education--each influenced differently from another by the different experiences and disciplines of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties; it did not even make them free from earthly passion; it did not make them into machines--it left them men."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-18906842430461027042007-12-20T14:12:00.000-05:002007-12-20T14:12:00.000-05:00I'd call Steve Benson a "whistle-blower" as oppose...I'd call Steve Benson a "whistle-blower" as opposed to a "bitter ex-mormon".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-23293647012062945792007-12-20T10:15:00.000-05:002007-12-20T10:15:00.000-05:00What galls me most about this article in the Edito...What galls me most about this article in the Editor and Publishrew, is that it is "made-up news." to quote the article: "Benson -- who was contacted by E&P for this story -- said journalists have basically given Romney...".<BR/>Although I rarely pull up the E&P website, I have to wonder how often the E&P contacts bitter ex-Clintonistas (though there are probably many more of these than bitter ex-Mormons). <BR/>Maybe you should interview ex-newspaper readers who have escaped from the clutches of the cult of the lame-stream media. (Oh wait, that's me...)<BR/>Left-wing lame-scream media will do anything, make any flip-flop, in order to gain and maintain power. Witness their allegiance to going to war, and then there sharply anti-American tone when things weren't going well, and the current "brown-out" of illuminating news about Iraq now that the surge is working.<BR/>Thank God citizen journalism has arrived!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-13291662369467321232007-12-20T02:34:00.000-05:002007-12-20T02:34:00.000-05:00Someone going 'anonymous' said: "I'd say the carto...Someone going 'anonymous' said: "I'd say the cartoonist is onto something. From all the LDS 'evangelizing' I've received, I'd call the LDS a cult, too. It's scary what they preach."<BR/><BR/>I can understand in part what you must feel. Someone else calling themselves "Elder Matt of the Seventies" - pretending to be a leader of the LDS church posted so-called beliefs about the church. For anyone who knows anything about the church, this was obviously NOT an LDS leader. But if you do not know any better, you might believe it.<BR/><BR/>I think it is quite sad really that misconceptions are fed by things like this.<BR/><BR/>Now there are other people who have posted with emotion on this site that do seem to be LDS, and that might also seem strange to you? But I don't think it is scary at all. Not that any of us are very good at it all the time, but the core of Mormon belief and practice is to do good in the world, to care about others more than yourself, and to try and follow the golden rule.<BR/><BR/>Most of the "strange" things posted about Mormons are just not even thought about or talked about much in the Church unless an anti-Mormon person brings them up.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if it will help any, but I have recently posted about my experience in growing up in the LDS Church. I believe I am biased, as we all are in certain ways, but I have at least tried to not be defensive, and to share more about the core of what it was like in growing up in the Mormon church. http://www.clintrogersonline.com/blog/?p=75dr. clinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11626797977771645004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-56705256434770249852007-12-20T02:32:00.000-05:002007-12-20T02:32:00.000-05:00Note to non-LDS readers: Those commenting in this ...Note to non-LDS readers: Those commenting in this section using language from the LDS temple know that Mormons are committed to keeping the temple covenants to themselves as they are sacred to Mormons.<BR/><BR/>I find it deeply disturbing that some would use language that is sacred and considered holy (and unspeakable outside the temple walls) as ammunition for an attack on religion. These are bigots, clear and simple. They use holy matters to others and without any hesitation spew venom against a peaceful people.<BR/><BR/>Governor Bogg's extermination order is alive and well.<BR/><BR/>I would only comment that the covenants taken in the temple are considered holy by Mormons. They are covenants to build what they believe is the kingdom of God upon the earth. It is religious in nature and is intended to focus on service to others and to exemplify true Christ-like characteristics.<BR/><BR/>It is a lie to assert that such commitments would cause a person to blindly follow in doing an action that is contrary to the laws of the land. The stated Articles of Faith prepared by Joseph Smith before he was murdered in cold blood for his beliefs clearly states that Mormons believe in being subject to the laws of the land. That is why Mormons were allowed to build their temple in Eastern Germany during the Cold War. It is amazing that the Communists understood the commitment Mormons had to their respective countries, but disaffected anti-Mormons treat us like we are lemmings running off a cliff.<BR/><BR/>Mitt Romney should be elected for his talent and skills and leadership, not for his religious beliefs. Period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-77017175239794038572007-12-19T23:57:00.000-05:002007-12-19T23:57:00.000-05:00Shame on those who make fun of other peoples relig...Shame on those who make fun of other peoples religion. Shame on Steve Benson for being a hate monger. <BR/><BR/>Mormons who make covenants in the temple are doing no more than what a president of the United States does when he puts his hand on the Bible and takes the oath of office.<BR/><BR/>Mitt Romney's life is an open book. What has he done other than be representative of the best America has to offer. Find anything in his life that shows this statement to be wrong. If you can't then you what are you flapping your lip about.<BR/><BR/>Those who defame him without cause are representative of the worst American has to offer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-30127458639224086452007-12-19T23:10:00.000-05:002007-12-19T23:10:00.000-05:00Some of you might be interested in reading more he...Some of you might be interested in reading more here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.exmormon.org/bboards.htm<BR/><BR/>You can ask questions anonymously and do not have to register to post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-7451755916084902812007-12-19T23:07:00.000-05:002007-12-19T23:07:00.000-05:00Hey "newspaper publisher"-If this story is so "pat...Hey "newspaper publisher"-<BR/><BR/>If this story is so "pathetic" then why are you joining in?<BR/><BR/>And what has Steve said that is false and misleading??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-17416310605032309192007-12-19T22:28:00.000-05:002007-12-19T22:28:00.000-05:00Wow, a great forum for ex-mormons to join Benson a...Wow, a great forum for ex-mormons to join Benson and bash the LDS faith.<BR/>Where's the forum to bash the Episcopalians?<BR/>If religion is so important in this campaign, shouldn't we be discussing what the Baptists believe with an ex-Baptist? If you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find a lot of trash talk about any religion you want.<BR/>This discussion is pathetic and so is this story. Please take your trash to youtube and quit embarrassing yourselves on these pages.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-14731343174264566292007-12-19T22:21:00.000-05:002007-12-19T22:21:00.000-05:00one other thing...elder Matt's comments scare me (...one other thing...elder Matt's comments scare me (shudder.) If that's the beliefs of the LDS, then it definitely IS A CULT!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-80913795710259199152007-12-19T22:12:00.000-05:002007-12-19T22:12:00.000-05:00wow! reading through these comments it's obvious ...wow! reading through these comments it's obvious the LDS church is all over this. As a non church member, but familiar with them, I'd say the cartoonist is onto something. From all the LDS "evangelizing" I've received, I'd call the LDS a cult, too. It's scary what they preach. I just can't believe all the stuff about Joseph Smith and the angel moroni or the seer stones, etc. To me, the beginning of the LDS sounds like a scam that got out of hand and when Smith was killed, Brigham Young decided to keep it going. What really gets me is that they teach Jesus and Satan are brothers! WRONG WRONG WRONG Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah and LORD OF ALL. satan is a fallen angel who tried to exalt himself over God but was thrown out of heaven. Smith is just another man. Jesus came to earth in the form of a man and He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death to pay for your and my sins on the cross of Calvary that we receive by FAITH, not by temple rituals. Read what Paul wrote to the Galatians. The whole message of the letter is that faith plus nothing else, equals salvation. We are saved by the grace of God, not Smith. The bible is the word of God, not anything Smith wrote. Read 1 john 4:1-3.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-91716784911492184862007-12-19T22:03:00.000-05:002007-12-19T22:03:00.000-05:00I'm an ex-Mormon...or I will be just as soon as th...I'm an ex-Mormon...or I will be just as soon as they let me out of their cult. I sent a letter of resignation a few months ago, but they have not sent me a letter of confirmation yet. So why do I need this? Because otherwise the constant visits by the missionaries, home teachers, visiting teacchers, the bishop and a few High Council members won't stop! They have been constantly harrassing me, and I am not exaggerating one bit. With any other church/faith, if you want to leave you just stop going - no problem. But not with this dang cult. They will not LET you leave.<BR/><BR/>And it is not the fastest-growing church - very FEW people who get baptized stay active. But the church does not subtract those people from their numbers nor do they subtract the people who resign. Their "numbers" are a joke.<BR/><BR/>And to the person who claims it's so wonderful because Mormons tithe: Yeah of course they do; otherwise at the year-end Tithing Settlement with the bishop they get in trouble. I know many couples who are on the brink of financial peril who have taken out loans on their credit cards to come up with the money they "owe" the church. And if you don't come up with the 10% at year's end then you don't get a Temple Recommend, which is needed to enter the temple.<BR/><BR/>Ugh, this so-called church makes me ill. Now why won't they let me leave?!<BR/><BR/>Steve's comments were right on. I challend any Mormons here to show proof anything Steve said is wrong or misleading. C'mon, I'm waiting...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-10255148539447907902007-12-19T19:58:00.000-05:002007-12-19T19:58:00.000-05:00All the members of this reli, er cult, are now com...All the members of this reli, er cult, are now coming out of the woodworks on defense, wow!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4290152190457552426.post-78222275548003086092007-12-19T19:40:00.000-05:002007-12-19T19:40:00.000-05:00Answering direct and legitimate inquiries from a r...Answering direct and legitimate inquiries from a robust and skeptical media operating in an open and free society is something with which apparently both Mitt Romney and his Mormon Church are not comfortable dealing.<BR/><BR/>It is the power of the people bolstered by free inquiry--not the convenient appeal to the authority of gods in the face of tough questions--that moves society toward knowledge and enlightenment.<BR/><BR/>It would behoove the Mormon Church and Mr. Romney to recognize those facts--and to start coming clean to the American people, so that the best interests of this nation may be served--a nation that a fudgingly slick Mr. Romney wants to have voters somehow believe he is qualified to lead.<BR/><BR/>Wednesday, December 19, 2007Steve Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04350089381461243345noreply@blogger.com